We are Turner & Wilson

Our mission is very clear - provide professional quality flexible flue linings

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About Us

In the early '60's it was predicted, with government encouragement, that all buildings, particularly flats and houses, would be 'factory made'. It followed that the plumbing and heating should be similarly treated and Turner and Wilson was formed in 1964 to develop pre-piped modules with integrated hot water and heating appliances which could be instantly 'slotted' into the building. Because the main market was for high rise flats, this meant the boilers had to be gas-fired; then a great rarity with few people having any experience of it.

The venture was not a success but it did highlight the little appreciated problem at the time with the flues of high efficiency gas boilers; namely terrible condensation problems which permeated masonry chimneys producing some fascinating, but completely unwanted, pschycodelic patterns in higher rooms!

British Gas (then known as the Gas Boards) had approached several flexible tube manufacturers to see if they could produce a tube which could be threaded down a chimney. The result was an adapted car heater tube with lead foil substituted for the bitumen impregnated paper of the original. It worked to a certain extent but was too heavy and would unwind at the drop of a hat.

In 1966 Turner and Wilson started to explore the possibility of making a flexible flue liner from stainless steel. The problem was finding someone to roll a suitable steel to a sufficiently thin gauge. This problem dogged the project for nearly two years by which time a subsidiary of G.K.N. had had the same thought, persuaded a steel company to make a special rolling and marketed the product. By accessing the same supplier, we were able to make and test our first machine, entering the market with our first commercial linings in 1968.

In 1980 Turner and Wilson developed the first flue linings to be welded. This was much more difficult than might be thought and over-coming the problems a slow and expensive process. The welded product was a great success and has since been imitated but not equalled.

Frequently Asked Questions

1What does the EN 1856 Product Designation mean?



What does the EN 1856 Product Designation mean?


EN 1856 is a European standard covering metal flues, including flexible metal liners.  The standard allows for products, to be tested to performance figures stated by the manufacturer, prividing such figures lie within the standard's parameters. The Product  Designation indicates to the end user the performance figures to which a particular product has been tested. (Please note that this does not mean that these parameters are not the extreme limits of a product).

Example a product with this designation:
   
EN1856-2 - T600 N - W - Vm - L40010 - G

would mean:

EN 1856-2 =  The standard name.

T600 = the test temperature. (This is not the melting point of the material)

N = Pressure range see table

D = Dry flue conditions. W= Wet

Vm = Corrosion Resistance

L40010 = Steel specification

G = Soot reistance. G = yes; O = no.



Pressure table
Pressure Type            Test Pressure              
Pa
Leakage rate/flue surface area
l . s-1 . m-2
N1 40 <2
N2 20 <3
P1 200 <0.006
P2 200 <0.120
H1 200 and 5000 <0.006
H2 200 and 5000 <0.120
     

 

Comments

Note that all these tests are conducted under positive pressure.

The porosity rats of  Pressure Tests for flexible linings are very onerous; about 100 times less than jointed rigid metal tubes which in themselves are far less than the levels for clay and concrete liners.

Even the lowest pressures in the table are quite considerable, given that flues are completely open ended. To see such pressures in open tubes would be truly phenominal and whey past anything encoutered even in extreme cases.

It should be remembered that because hot gases are considerably lighter than air, flues suck air inwards rather than, as often falsely supposed, expelling gases outwards. Flues are therefore normally under negative pressure.

Flow Resistance

Gas flows on flues are of a vary low order, even when fan assisted. Flow resistance figures are therefore not relavent.

 

2Why I cannot see XPS documents sent from Turner and Wilson?

Question: Why I cannot see XPS documents sent from Turner and Wilson?

Answer:

Windows Users

An XPS viewer is part of Windows and is enabled by defualt,  so if you cannot see documents with a .XPS extension then it is probably for one of these reasons:

The Windows version is XP (except XP Professional) or earlier. XP users can use a free Microsoft download to solve this porblem.

XPS has been delibrately turn off (often in the mistaken belief that it saves disk space or hinders running time). This can easily be tested by going to 'Start>All Programs'.

 If 'XPS Viewer' cannot be seen then it has been disabled. To turn XPS on Click Here

3Which Lining?
Product
Fuels
Weldline Gas (condensing and non condensing), Oil (28 seconds), Prophane, Butane
 Triplelock Non condensing Gas, Prophane, Butane and  Oil (28 seconds)
Twinflex Professional 316 Dry cured Wood
Twinflex Professional 904 Coal and coal derived products, dry cured wood, wood pellets, non condensing Gas, Prophane, Butane and  Oil (28 seconds)
4Which Terminal?
Gas- GC1, Skyline Gas . Oil - Raincap, Skyline MF, H-terminals Solid Fuel - Raincap, Skyline MF, H-terminals
5Will the liner fit in my van?
Liners sizes vary depending on size and length. The larger the size or length the bigger the coil. We do see quite a lot of liners damaged when being loaded into vans. Coils are easily dented and need care in handling. The following table gives aproximate coil diameters and widths.
Weldline and Triplelock Size Length Diameter Width
4inch(100mm) < 20M 1M 200mm
20-40    
5inch(125mm) <12M 1M 0.3M
12-20 1M 0.4
20-40M 1.2 0.4M
40M 1.2M 0.7M
150mm (6inch) 10-12M 2M 300mm
12-18 1.25M .5M
18-30 1.25M .75M
175mm (7inch) <10M 2.5M 350mm
10-15M    
15-30M    
200mm (8inch) <10M 3M 400mm
10 -15M 1.7M 750mm
15-30M 1.7M 1.4M
225mm (9inch)
     
250mm (10inch)
     
     
Twinflex 316 & 904 125mm <16M 1.25M 0.3M
16-30
30-40    
150mm <10M 1.3M
10-15M 1.3M .33M
15-30 1.3  
30-40M 1.3  
175mm <10M 2.4M
10-15M 2.4M 0.7M
  2.4M  
200mm <12    
     
     
6What temperatures will Stainless Steel Liners withstand?
The melting point of Austenitic Stainless Steels is in the region of 1300 to 1400 degrees Centigrade, varying slightly according to the precise grade. However they start to become iincreasingly plastic after the threshold point of 1000 - 1100 degrees is reached. 316 grade being is at the higher end of these spectrums. At higher temperatures surface oxidisation will cause discolouration. This usually takes place above 600 degrees. Although this decreases the life of the steel, it is usually insignificant.
7How long do stainless steel liners last?
he answer is a very long time indeed as long as the right fuels, devoid of contamination, are used . Particularly damaging to stainless steel are fuels adulterated with substances containing chlorine or, worse still, flourine. No proper fuel should contain such visious elements. Our linings are made from the highest grades of steel; far higher quality than would be used for sinks for example. When you think of all the things that go down a sink and ask yourself have you ever seen one that has corroded away, it becomes clear that any fuel releasing substances that attack stainless steel cannot be thought of, in any way, as fuels.
8Can the liner size be different from the appliance?
Ideally the liner should match the appliance. In naturally ventilated appliances, the liner can be a larger size than the flue take-off on a appliance but, for safety reasons, should never be reduced to a lesser size. For this reason Turner and Wilson make increasers but not reducers. All flues cool the gases to some extent. Excessive cooling will lead to a degredation of performance, so it may be wise to limit size increases. A larger diameter, with its larger surface area, results in faster cooling. To take a 100mm flue and increase it to 125mm is unlikely to cause problems, but increasing the size to 150mm or 200mm may well be taking things to far. The use of an extractor reduce a flue size should be restricted to trained people with an expert knowledge of gas flow dynamics and the safety requirements involved.
9Is insulation or back-filling necessary?
There are two schools of thought on this matter, both with valid merits. Back-filling with vermiculite increases the insulation, keeping the flue warm, reducing condensation with the result of improved drawing powers on the flue and perhaps extending the life of the lining. There are two draw backs to insulating. One is that the isulation must remains dry. Should it become wet then it will be worse than useless. The other is that should the lining have to be removed, then the insulation becomes a cansiderable problem - particularly vermiculite. Leaving the void uninsulated, however avoids these problems. True the insulation is not as good but when the installation is viewed as whole, then there is the liner, an air gap , then the masonry. Together tese form a pretty good level of protection which, except in the most extreme of circumstances, is quite adequate. Removing or changing the liner is a very easy matter. On balance Turner and Wilson prefer not to insulate, but if the installer thinks it is best then that is fine with us.

Building Regulations

Our flexible chimney liner conforms to the requirements of the UK's Building Regulations Document J which states that the liner's performance should at least be equal to that corresponding to the designation T400 N2 D3 G, as described in BS EN 1443:2003, such as factory made flue lining systems manufactured to BS EN 1856-1:2003 or BS EN 1856-2:2004. Our flexible liners are also Hetas approved.

Turner & Wilson